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Great Dpbours 2009-03-02 3:09

Hi Kev,

A wonderful portrait and a not too objective note - though totally understandable. I surely see your point(s), but there are always two sides to every story.
I know too little about the conflict, most people do, to make any judgement calls or approve or disapprove of your note.

But yes, a wonderful portrait and an understandable note.

Greetings!
Dennis

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Old 03-02-2009, 03:49 PM
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Default To Dpbours: Two sides...

' I know too little about the conflict, "


???????????????????????????


.......................................
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Old 03-03-2009, 11:03 AM
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Default Re: To Dpbours: Two sides...

I know. I work in international development for 6 years, but if I talk with friends of mine who are actually active in the peace negotiations, I am sure that we all know too little about the conflict and the underlying sensitivities.

Greetings! Dennis
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Old 03-03-2009, 11:34 AM
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Default Re: To Dpbours: Two sides...

Forgive me, Dennis... Again...


?

I'm simply not getting the whole philosophy behind the: We all know too little... (?)

I know very little about the Vega galaxy, but about the conflict Arab world and Israel...???

Who's 'all' and WHY you know so little about the conflict, and WHY would you announce that fact to the world...?

:-)))))

Stay smiling, bro

........................
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Old 03-03-2009, 11:47 AM
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Default Re: To Dpbours: Two sides...

Self-knowledge perhaps? ;-)

And you're absolutely right. I shouldn't speak for others.
I'm sure there are millions out there who know less about the conflict and feel stronger in being vocal about their (little) knowledge!

Greetings from PNG!
Dennis

(Oh, I also know quite little about the violence against women problem and general violence problems in PNG. Though it surely is a clearer problem)
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Old 03-06-2009, 07:28 AM
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Default Re: To Dpbours: Two sides...

Everyone who wants to has a view..........when some of those more strident and 'accepted' views are contradicted enough by what you see and experience on the ground, by the evidence that is presented, by deeper research into alternative histories (history is mostly opiniion mixed with carefully selected facts) and the direct views (and emotions) of a more diverse range of people on both sides then is it wrong to engage in a wider debate? As with all conflicts there is a sharp and confusing rising learning curve.....on the down curve there is the long and complicated process of bringing resolution, peace and justice......it all requires a level of honesty and patience that many find it hard to possess......

Of course I have feelings about my good friends on their mountain top in Palestine.....they are a hard working family trying to do their best for the future of their children and their people in very difficult circumstances. Their case has been covered in the American media and is well documented...but their case is the tip of the iceberg of 'land acquisition' upon which the so called \illegal' settlements are built.

I would love an Israeli lawyer to explain to me, in the same depth as a noted `Palestinian lawyer has, how this works and is justified in a territory occupied by others - the claim made by some Israelis to 'own' the land (and its inhabitants?) all the way to the Jordan - is increasingly a de facto reality?

We know what we know......mixed with what we think we know......but it becomes to us a coherent 'what we know' (only if we stop questioning our own knowledge)........aside from direct experience what we know changes when what others know and what others think they know collides with our own limited or extensive knowledge.......out of that dialogue springs sufficient learning about each other to build a relationship which in its turn enables benefits to be realised....greater understanding, resolution, equitable solutions to intractable problems........for me creativity is a key that binds that process together - that is my work and my life to date........for others it will be something else......either we are committed to humanity and justice or to some more limited self interested or more focused collective position......just to be clear - all of my posts about Palestine (in particular) here on TE are questions in one sense or another......particularly about prevailing views......my questions........I learn something more from the dialogues that spring up.....particularly with off TE responses from one or two Israeli TE friends.

There is also the humility of realising that as much as we know there is more that we don't and may never know.......yet we have to act on imperfect knowledge all the time.

There are usually more than two sides! In this one there are many more than two sides!.......is it worse to go round thinking you know nothing for ever and ever and always keeping your lip buttoned?

Rambling a bit......

Got to go.......I'm just off to meet Martin Parr! Great photography festival happening in our nearby city of Derby organised by a friend Louise Clements. It opened last night with him and Brian Griffin - aaah! photographers heaven.....http://www.formatfestival.com/

bw kev
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Old 03-06-2009, 08:44 AM
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Default Re: To Dpbours: Two sides...

Hi Kev,

Rambling a bit perhaps, but with a lot of sense to it.

There is also the humility of realising that as much as we know there is more that we don't and may never know.......yet we have to act on imperfect knowledge all the time.

Wonderfully said. Perhaps my feeling of not knowing enough comes from a fear of having an opinion, due to my work in which I am always neutral to the people whom we serve and the confict they are in.
Perhaps I should have said that I don't feel I know enough about it to have a neutral opinion and as such feel I better have none then.


Oh wow, wonderful photos on that festival. Yes, you are privileged to be there. Wonderful!

Enjoy!

Dennis
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Old 03-06-2009, 08:01 PM
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Default Re: To Dpbours: Two sides...

Hi Dennis - it was a very good and thought provoking conference today and some really great work to see in the flesh - as always I was greatly impressed by the Chinese photography and met two guys from Chongqing we may do a project together - Martin Parr talked about his short career in making films - very funny and entertaining and some great critical debates too.

I also have a sense of neutrality but as an artist I always feel drawn to more of a critical friendship stance. I can argue the inequities of both sides equally and have done....perhaps most notably with the Palestinian representative to the UK.....but i do understand your position all too well and in more parochial work here....and particularly direct work with conflictual groups a more neutral stance is more appropriate.....but this is a photography site and every picture contains a story as well as a myriad of interpretations.

take care


best wishes Kev
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