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-   -   To Adam: a suggestion concerning "series" on TE (https://www.trekearth.com/forums/showthread.php?t=485204)

kinginexile 08-30-2007 04:26 PM

Re: To Adam: a suggestion concerning "series" on TE
 
the reason that there is so little change is that the site is successful as it is.
---------------------------
No one is denying that, Darren. But it is not insulting Adam to remark that on just about every discussion relating to new ideas and possible improvements, he never participates. Not once.

Maybe i do not read all the administration and TOS pages often, but being succesful does not have to mean staying aloof from the membership. We are all grateful towards Adam for this site, but how about acknowledging once in a while the fact that people see TE as a growing and living site, not just a success formula, and that they may not own it, but are truly the life of it.

Francis, about your question, I have to agree the site is not designed, and not used by people to highlight a special stance of photography. Even considering the coziness of having one's main photo friends here, why not making the jump these friends have made, using another site wher their ideas are developped in a context more welcoming of their special vision.

kinginexile 08-30-2007 04:30 PM

"using another site".....
 
I mean, not leaving TE, but adding another web feather to your photographic coiffe.

Furachan 08-30-2007 10:57 PM

Re: To Adam: a suggestion concerning "series" on TE
 
Henk, there have been trends, movements, demographic and otherwise across TE this last two years, One of them is the gradual and often "perceived" isolation of the "photojournalistic" minority. What I am saying very clearly and loudly here, my friend, is that TE is ultimately big-hearted enough and broad ranging enough to accomodate those of us who are inclined toward PJ work in a way that makes us comfortabe. Adam is surely aware of all the trends and tensions that exert themselves across this vast landscape and I know he cares about quality even as he appreciates the advantages of scale. The listake, and it is one we too often make, is to attribute any kind of cynicism to e management of this huge site - that is simply not the case: this whole adventure was born out of an idealistic vision.

Darren 08-31-2007 12:09 AM

Re: To Adam: a suggestion concerning "series" on TE
 
Hi Herve.

I know and agree that Adam doesn't participate in threads where suggestions are made that ultimately go unused, but my take on that has been that there is a very good reason why he doesn't participate in those threads. If Adam were to to come online and join in the discussion, that whole thread has the potential for becoming a big debate not only on the particular idea submitted, but also on many other frustrations a user has.

Adam chiming in to say he won't be implementing something can amount to throwing a whole bunch of fuel onto a small fire that would otherwise smoulder and die. I have seen this on other sites, where the moderators or webmasters do participate and the smallest thing becomes a major tempest in a hurry. I don't take this as aloofness, more as an action plan that works. Personally, whenever I have had email contact with Adam, the replies have been quick and friendly; I don't take him to be aloof as a person, but I think his choice has (rightly IMO) been to be aloof in how he participates here, especially as the site has grown.

Anyways, this is my take on things I can understand why others would think differently. Then again, I could be totally way off base.

oochappan 08-31-2007 12:50 AM

Re: To Adam: a suggestion concerning "series" on TE
 
indeed nor cynisme neither poetic ill/effusions but bare practical reality/facts is at its place hoping that your request will be heard once, a confirmation of the idealistic vision going beyond the past, thumbs up :) !

kinginexile 08-31-2007 01:06 AM

Re: To Adam: a suggestion concerning "series" on TE
 
We speak of Adam, but isn't the site now sold to another outfit? Certainly they have clarified a few points here on this forum, when needed, sorry I forget the name of the administrator, he has posted a few pix as well.

the site's approach is quite different if seen from the side of the ownership or the side of the members. Its success has made it a viable commercial enterprise, from what I gather, and it is a bit different for participants, who think only of their passion for photography, and do not always realize their propositions to improve the site or make it evolve, like Francis asks, may not be of much interest to its viability, and possibly veer it away from its success formula.

I am neither for or against, but why not say it, it may help some understand why TE sticks closely to what has been working very well until now.

prezntime 08-31-2007 02:55 AM

Re: To Adam: a suggestion concerning "series" on TE
 
I've got a couple of points to make...I hope.

First, series broken into daily installments is not all that unrealistic...take, for instance, a good quantity of fine literature. Many times a writer posted what became a novel over weekly or daily installments in periodicals. So if you have a talent for connective tissue (so to speak), you shouldn't have a problem connecting your output through your notes. Now, if people don't want to follow your posts because of laziness of procrastination...so be it; does it really matter. I know George (Polonaise) makes quite an effort in producing series linked by a unifying theme. That said, there is something lost by viewing on constantly refreshing screens...the computer will never be a book.

Also, there have been changes...we, Trekearths photographers, have moved away from what has made this site so interesting for so many people...constructive critisism. When I first started taking photos...not long ago, I wanted people to tell me what was good or bad with my photographs. I wanted feedback on the photos. Now, Trekearths guidelines have always said "learning about the world through photography"; but you have to be interested in the photographs to learn anything from them...that's where the constructive critisism comes in. Where are those that constantly push for a higher standard; They've become fewer and fewer as time passes.

I have many people that I consider friends on TE who take awesome photographs...but they can become lost in TE because of the "dumping ground" nature of the site (my words). Groups are a great concept and might work for TE. I do understand that some will consider this a insult to the "all one family" concept of TE, but at some point we have to recognize the size of this site and begin to create a better structure. If you think a photo fits, post it to that group...no moderators, if someone doesn't think it belongs they can tell you with a critique.

I want to participate in TE, but I feel more and more like the type of photography I'm doing doesn't fit into TE...I could be wrong, but it is just a feeling.

These are my recommendations for positive changes on TE.

I don't take critisism as an insult, nor truth telling of ones feelings. Henk has always been honest and forthcoming and I feel as though he's taken a little bit of a bad rap here.

Chris

sohrab 08-31-2007 04:20 AM

Re: To Adam: a suggestion concerning "series" on TE
 
a series in daily installments will definitely have an impact not only on how the viewer sees the series wholly but also on how the photographer goes about uploading his/her photographs. i feel that the critiques to the previous photographs will have an impact on subsequent uploads which might veer the series away from its original form

francis, suppose you have a 10 photograph story on the tokyo night life and if say you don't get a good response to one of them, i feel that there is a possibility that you might remove it and might also change some of the subsequent uploads which will mea that there was no point in your wanting to upload a series in the first place.

in order to safeguard the objectives of this site, and the photographer's original vision of his series and also in order to not externally affect the perspective of people who are the prospective viewers of your stories/series i suggest the following.

let there be some extra options while uploading.

1. an option of adding a photograph to a theme/series right at the time of the upload.

2. if you choose SERIES let there be an option "HIDE". you can perhaps allow the uploader to word his own phrases like "HIDE TILL SERIES IS COMPLETE."

you should have this as an option because it will also allow the people who want to upload in daily installments and get critiques for each subsequent photograph.

i believe that people like francis, rafal and perhaps shailendra and others who reaaaaaally want to show a series at one go will be patient enough to wait 10 days uploading photographs daily that are not visible to others will they chose to make them so. and if they are far too eager to show something other than a blank thumbnail with a message to people they can always upload separate singles in the days in between. or perhaps if you get too impatient with the process of waiting 10 days to show a 10 photograph series you can always edit the option of HIDE in all or some of the photographs and make them visible to others.

with their uploads their pages should also have blank thumbnails with the message that they've chosen while uploading like for example "HIDE TILL SERIES COMPLETE"

this i believe will also sustain the interest of the people who visit their pages and perhaps even generate new interest in what they will be about to see.

and more importantly i feel that it will satisfy the needs of all.

only the people who want to show a series as a whole will have to practise some patience. after all this will be an end to all their woes and bickering at one another ;)

AnimeshRay 08-31-2007 06:35 AM

Re: To Adam: a suggestion concerning "series" on TE
 
Agree with Sohrab's scheme...if there is a will to allow series, then this might be the simplest way. It also has the nice feature that "patience" will be directly proportional to the size of the series. Always good to think hard before making a splash :-)

pgorod 08-31-2007 10:34 AM

Re: To Adam: a suggestion concerning "series" on TE
 
Thinking in very practical terms, I would say this idea of series already exists, it is called "Themes", and it's really no bother to create a theme called "My Tokyo nights series" and add each relevant photo to the series.

The reason I think this doesn't feel like a good solution is just because of the lack of navigation options. If we could have a nice, obvious couple of links in each photo saying "Previous in Theme" and "Next in Theme", it would probably do the trick. With minimal work implementing.


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