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  #51  
Old 12-07-2007, 03:57 PM
Davids Davids is offline
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Default Re: Furachan

jinju wrote on 'the other site";
"The points race...and the lack of focus on stories and projects. Very different place this one. The other thing was that I saw no direction on TE. It became bloated with thousands of photos, thousands of members...it became too much"
I don't feel restricted, I don't feel a lack towards street photography (but my portfolio is a mess of a lot of styles), I feel a lack of meaningfull communication (communication enough).
Yes, I also feel a lack of direction here, the themes (compare projects) are a mess and Adam is out, the reason is understandable, but we're stuck on a ship with no captain.
Bad photo's; Yes and No. I also think quality could be up, but on the other hand;TE is to learn. I also started with shit-shots ( . . . . ), the essence is to turn this around. The number of members joining and becoming active is down.

Pigeon's; one day this is fashion, the other day that. typical of them.
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  #52  
Old 12-07-2007, 04:00 PM
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InasiaJones InasiaJones is offline
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Default Re: Furachan

If I can add my 10, I would like to say that we've lost some great shooters and we will loose more along the way, but that doesn't mean we can't follow their work on the new website!

I have to be honest, I've met Flydragon, Luko and Eleparc, and these guys are fabulously intelligent and talented and I certainly understand why they have left TE...

But I'm glad they were on this site while I was here, because a lot of them have opened my eyes, particularly Furachan - now with a new nickname Kitano on Photoholic. Since I'm a newcomer to photography, I used to think that Francis was an overrated photog, shooting blindly at anything that moves, or if you prefer, a hip shooter... I sincerely thought it was a matter of shooting like a 3 years old kid, no real talent involved, just push the button and forget about all the rules of composition and whatever... And of course, I was thinking to myself: "These guys are a closed unit within TE, only commenting on each other images, dropping names like HCB, Avedon and all the rest to impress the gallery, full of themselves". I also thought that their work has nothing to do on this site, since photos of passer-by reflecting on a shop's window have nothing to do with the principles of TE, aka LATWTP.

My perception was all a matter of being green, innocent and with a huge lack of photographic knowledge. I had no clue about street shooting and I wasn't able to judge what kind of talent was involved in the process. But I have continued to look at their photography, sometimes laughing at themselves... but by reading the comments they were receiving, I've began to understood a little more about this discipline, slowly shifting my mind and finally began to respect their work and even more, being able to appreciate it.

So I jumped in the wagon, leaving comments on their work and they eventually did the same on mine. I guess that what I'm trying to say is that whatever the downsides of TE, I could confirm that my exchange with the members of this community have been extremely precious and I've learned priceless tips and insightful knowledge about photography and Francis was certainly one of them. Most of the bunch that are now on Photoholic have opened my eyes and I'm grateful for that.

Simon had some excellent reasons to start his own website and I'm sincerely happy for him. I respect his guts and the way he has been treated here is the ultimate revenge. I really like the guy and his talent. And if I was a streetshooter, I would simply leave as well, because I think they will have much more fun together.

So for the ones among us who can appreciate landscapes, portraits or architecture images as well as streetshooting, we will always be able to follow their work on the other site. They didn't really quit, they just had the intelligence to create a parallel website, almost similar to this one which is now in my bookmarks.

Also, I've read on this thread that TE visual presentation hasn't evoluate since it's beginning, and as a graphic designer, I could add that it's absolutely ugly, like if it was created by a granny... The colours, the logo, the buttons, everything is absolutely drab and terribly dull for such a large and vibrant community (Treklens and TrekNature are even worse!!). But Adam has the merit to think at every functionality and features of this site, which to my opinion is very impressive. The visual presentation might be awful, but the functionality is impeccable, to the point that Simon could only reproduce a copy of TE. The notion of "serie" or "collection" already exists here, under the name "theme"...

So as a conclusion, I don't feel that we've lost Francis, or Simon, or Eric. They will still be there, one click away from TE. And as a matter of fact, I was able to discover a legendary former member of TE, Claude Renault, who is now a member of Photoholic. There's always positive things coming out from sad situation.

Good luck Simon, good luck Francis! See you guys!
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  #53  
Old 12-07-2007, 07:26 PM
pasternak pasternak is offline
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Default Re: Furachan

I have to be honest, I've met Flydragon, Luko and Eleparc, and these guys are fabulously intelligent and talented and I certainly understand why they have left TE...

Not sure I've understood you properly here, Andre... ;)))

I'll tell you one thing, it is always easier to leave then to try to change... If those guys instead of simply leaving and organizing an alternative socium would try to use their intelligence and talent to change TE for the better - it would be of great importance and in the true sense of sharing. Because TE is about sharing, and sharing points is only a small part of it, of course only for those who actually do "share" points. What's much more important than 40 points one is able to give per day though is the tremendous amount of their (here we go again...) talent, skill and intelligence they could have continued to share with other members, had they stayed on TE. Of course one may argue that TE quality is dropping and therefore somebody with true skill went to look for different places under the sun; but as a matter of fact, with their departure TE quality has dropped even lower, much lower. By their mere presence on the site people like Sasa, Luis or Francis have been encouraging hundreds of other members, including myself, to try to do something new in photography, to search for own styles and manners of expression, instead of just "sharing" points. I won't be surprised if now there will be a "second wave" of members leaving TE because now that the site has been deprived of several top members they won't see anything here which would be worth staying any longer... And don't get me wrong, I am not against somebody taking a break or leaving TE for good, after all it is one of basic human rights...;)) I myself have been inactive for nine months and eventually came back. But what we see here is not somebody just leaving, this is an action, a statement. And in this respect I would be grateful if you explain to me your following words:

Simon had some excellent reasons to start his own website and I'm sincerely happy for him. I respect his guts and the way he has been treated here is the ultimate revenge.

So what you mean is that you respect his guts to deprive TE, as I already said, of several top members, if he was already out any way? If it really, as you say, was a planned action of "revenge to TE" (and I still don't want to believe that!), with creating an alternative website and privately inviting people to leave TE and join him, then the ones who suffered most from it are the TE members who are not guilty at all of the fact that he found himself out of TE... An effective revenge, I must say! But then again, I want to be mistaken here...
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  #54  
Old 12-07-2007, 08:03 PM
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InasiaJones InasiaJones is offline
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Default Re: Furachan

I don't know if it would be appropriate for me to share infos concerning Simon's personal matters, but let just say it has nothing to do with the members, but rather with the administrators of this site.

Contrary to a lot of streetshooters who only write comments to other streetshooters, Simon was very democratic and he was there to encourage me, as early as my second post, almost 2 years ago. The guy was not only talented as a photographer, but he was consistent in his critics, always including some hints to make you grow - just like Luko.

So the guy had one of his photo rejected, simply because it was featuring a cat!!! How many animals are populating TE galleries!!! The dictators who rule this site made discrimination towards him, and I regret to say that they didn't think twice, before making such a decision, because Simon was very implicated in the dynamic of TE.

I once had an exchange on this site, concerning security and copyrights of our photos, and I've been warned by other members who told me to keep a low profile, because they could pull the plug on my membership!!! So this kind of attitude towards members who actually make this site alive could be quite deceptive.

And believe me, there is not a lot you can change here; many topics have been discussed in forums among members, but nothing never happened... So that's why I'm saying that it's a good revenge, because some of the best eventually quit or create another website, because they can't get heard here. And I guess there will be more people deserting this site, when the level of quality and implication will be so low... Maybe there is 50 000 or whatever members on TE, but how many are posting regularly? How many actually get involved with their comments, critiques and so on... You are saying it yourself, you were away for 9 months, so it might have something to do with the lowering level of quality and a lack of community feeling.

So like everybody else before me, it's only my perception, my humble opinion... I don't want to talk for Simon, Francis or Eric, but let's face it, when you are passionate about what you do and you have a lot of experience like these guys do, you might found that TE doesn't correspond anymore to your expectations. When you mostly communicate only among a certain category of members - the streetshooters - I guess it's natural to eventually step aside. Go on Photoholic, get the names from these photographers, come back on TE and look at their critiques: a lot of them were mostly have exclusive correspondance. There's nothing wrong there, I guess it's normal to have affinities between people who share same interest, similar philosophy, so why would they stay here, lost among thousands of members, beginners, one-day members, superficial critics, like "thanks for sharing" and so on.

So that's about it. I've mentionned "revenge" concerning Simon's move, about the way he has been treated here, but it's probably has nothing to do with revenge... Simon is above this and he simply want to have fun, like they used to have once on this site...
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  #55  
Old 12-07-2007, 08:21 PM
pasternak pasternak is offline
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Default Re: Furachan

Salut Andre, I know the story, I even have had a chance to see his photograph that was rejected (in the half an hour that it still was on the site), there was actually a dog on it, not a cat:))

What I wanted to say is that in case he wanted to "punish" the administrators of the site for their behaviour (and, between us, I also once have had my photo rejected because it violated the TOS, and I didn't start deleting all my pictures after it was rejected...) by taking several members to an alternative site, he has punished the innocent TE members, not the admins... because these are the "small" members, not the admins, who have suffered most from the depature of the guys...
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  #56  
Old 12-07-2007, 08:29 PM
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InasiaJones InasiaJones is offline
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Default Re: Furachan

Come on Alexander, be realistic and not so dramatic!... :-P)

There's still plenty of talented photographers on this site, including yourself, so write me a critiques and I'll do the same on yours... LOL! We will survive!

And like I've previously mentioned, these guys are still alive, not death! You will be able to see their work every time you like.. Don't condemn Simon of draining talents from TE, it has nothing to do with it. Others have deserted TE before and nobody cried. Of course I would like them to still be here, but like you've mentioned, it's the most basic human rights to leave this site when you don't recognize yourself anymore...

Go see Simon's monkeys and let's rejoice for them. Xmas is coming... Oh!oh!oh!
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  #57  
Old 12-07-2007, 08:33 PM
cgrindahl cgrindahl is offline
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Default Re: Furachan

I appreciate your comments Andre, especially in your previous post where you speak of your evolution as student of photography. Your journey very much parallels my own, the difference being I started at TE two years before you. That meant, of course, that I was here when Claude Renault, Simon Kolton, Luko et al were flying high. I learned so much from these men, who delighted all of us with their inventiveness. I too had exchanges with these men both on the site and in private exchanges. I was pretty devastated when I heard that Claude left. In fact, I had a conversation with first Adam and then Claude as I tried to understand what could have gone so wrong that this man would leave.

Echoing your comments, more than one of the threads I authored as I tried to understand what was happening disappeared. I got the message from many members that I'd do well to keep my mouth shut or I'd be banned. I kept my mouth shut, but I have to admit this place became much less interesting to me when it became clear the thought police were watching what was said.

For the record, Simon left this site TWICE under a cloud. At the same time, he has always had a very beautiful site he created to display his excellent photography. That he chose eventually to offer a site that he's shared with other photographers doesn't surprise me. I love what I see there and will follow its development with interest. The work of these photographers continues to inspire me. If I ever feel that my work measured up to that quality I'd be honored to join them.

Adam worked very hard to create this site and he is to be applauded for the effort. Unfortunately, his primary goal as an entrepreneur was to attract as many eyeballs as possible so that he could attract the interest of investors. For him, any controversy was anathema and he ruled the place with an iron fist. Some folks liked that but many of the more creative folks who wanted to explore edgy photography and a more open exchange of ideas were frustrated. The hunt for points held no appeal to them. Sadly, there is quite a bit of crap on this site that scores big points for no other reason than the fact the photographer is willing to give laudatory comments to insipid work by other members who then feel obliged to reciprocate. I recall Luko saying on this introductory page that he had no intention to trade comments with anyone. That meant, of course, that when he chose to comment on one of your photos, the comments were precious. You knew he was moved by what you were doing. And his comments were always on point. His criticisms were sharp and on point as well. He didn't play the game.

So TE will likely continue to be home to beginning photographers as they learn their craft. It will also be a good place to get to know folks from around the world. But sadly, as creative folks who become bored with the same old game move on, we will all have fewer skilled photographers to emulate. That is time to begin looking seriously to other sites for inspiration.
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  #58  
Old 12-07-2007, 08:39 PM
cgrindahl cgrindahl is offline
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Default Thought Police at Work

IT APPEARS THE THOUGHT POLICE ARE AT WORK AGAIN! THE COMMENTS I WAS ADDRESSING HAVE BEEN REMOVED. THIS POST LIKELY WILL AS WELL. GREAT SITE HERE WHERE NOTHING CONTROVERSIAL CAN BE EXPRESSED. Is it any wonder people choose to leave???

I appreciate your comments Andre, especially in your previous post where you speak of your evolution as student of photography. Your journey very much parallels my own, the difference being I started at TE two years before you. That meant, of course, that I was here when Claude Renault, Simon Kolton, Luko et al were flying high. I learned so much from these men, who delighted all of us with their inventiveness. I too had exchanges with these men both on the site and in private exchanges. I was pretty devastated when I heard that Claude left. In fact, I had a conversation with first Adam and then Claude as I tried to understand what could have gone so wrong that this man would leave.

Echoing your comments, more than one of the threads I authored as I tried to understand what was happening disappeared. I got the message from many members that I'd do well to keep my mouth shut or I'd be banned. I kept my mouth shut, but I have to admit this place became much less interesting to me when it became clear the thought police were watching what was said.

For the record, Simon left this site TWICE under a cloud. At the same time, he has always had a very beautiful site he created to display his excellent photography. That he chose eventually to offer a site that he's shared with other photographers doesn't surprise me. I love what I see there and will follow its development with interest. The work of these photographers continues to inspire me. If I ever feel that my work measured up to that quality I'd be honored to join them.

Adam worked very hard to create this site and he is to be applauded for the effort. Unfortunately, his primary goal as an entrepreneur was to attract as many eyeballs as possible so that he could attract the interest of investors. For him, any controversy was anathema and he ruled the place with an iron fist. Some folks liked that but many of the more creative folks who wanted to explore edgy photography and a more open exchange of ideas were frustrated. The hunt for points held no appeal to them. Sadly, there is quite a bit of crap on this site that scores big points for no other reason than the fact the photographer is willing to give laudatory comments to insipid work by other members who then feel obliged to reciprocate. I recall Luko saying on this introductory page that he had no intention to trade comments with anyone. That meant, of course, that when he chose to comment on one of your photos, the comments were precious. You knew he was moved by what you were doing. And his comments were always on point. His criticisms were sharp and on point as well. He didn't play the game.

So TE will likely continue to be home to beginning photographers as they learn their craft. It will also be a good place to get to know folks from around the world. But sadly, as creative folks who become bored with the same old game move on, we will all have fewer skilled photographers to emulate. That is time to begin looking seriously to other sites for inspiration.
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  #59  
Old 12-07-2007, 09:11 PM
Davids Davids is offline
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Default two posts have been deleted

I get the feeling two posts have been deleted.
If someone else has noticed this also, please let me know.
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  #60  
Old 12-07-2007, 09:13 PM
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InasiaJones InasiaJones is offline
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Default Re: two posts have been deleted

Not only two posts, but rather a complete exchange among 3 members... But I guess we derogate from the guidelines...
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