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  #1  
Old 11-14-2010, 07:40 PM
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Porteplume Porteplume is offline
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Default Clearing the air...

Bonsoir to every member of TE,

I think that the most of you know me as I'm one of the oldest member of TE and the oldest mod too. I considered myself as a friend of TE's creator and I was happy to help him and later helping IB to take over...
I want first to explain that I had a special event to celebrate in my family since last Thursday and I was absolutely not able to participate at this huge debate on TE about the late happenings around Marine. I tried to keep an eye on it but could impossibly help you or my "mod colleagues".

Now, what will I do to clear out the situation?
First I'll close any retributive discussion about that case because you all have other ideas about what happened and - after reading your questions, opinions & retributions - the most of it is not right. That really "little incident" with Marine has been changed from mail to mail or from discussions to discussions in a HUGE AFFAIR which is absolutely not close to the reality.

But, after closing, and not deleting, these discussions, I'll invite you to write down your questions and I will - as far as I may or as far as I think you need to know - answer ALL your questions. It can take a day or more to answer but I'll answer ALL your mails.

I also will answer ordinary questions in this present thread as long as the request keeps being polite and if I can do that without trespassing the rules of moderating we have to follow.
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  #2  
Old 11-14-2010, 08:17 PM
chrisnet chrisnet is offline
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Bonsoir Viviane,
Il serait bon aussi pour les francophones que vous postiez vos messages également en langue française, il me semble qu'ils sont suffisament nombreux sur ce site.
Devant l'hémorragie de départs de membres éminents de ce site, il me semble qu'une clarification s'impose de votre part: Pourquoi avez-vous exclus plusieurs membres de ce site, était-ce justifié et pourquoi? Il semble qu'un grand nombre de trekkers soit mécontents et protestent en quittant le site et c'est bien dommageable pour tous. Pouvez-vous nous donner une explication claire et convaincante afin que nous comprenions ce qui se passe réellement sur ce site et ainsi assainir le climat.
Merci pour votre intervention
Christian
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  #3  
Old 11-14-2010, 09:01 PM
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Porteplume Porteplume is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisnet View Post
Devant l'hémorragie de départs de membres éminents de ce site, il me semble qu'une clarification s'impose de votre part: Pourquoi avez-vous exclus plusieurs membres de ce site, était-ce justifié et pourquoi?
Christian
Bonsoir Christian,

La réponse en français à cette question est une traduction d'un passage de mon message + qq. explications:

That really "little incident" with Marine has been changed from mail to mail or from discussions to discussions in a HUGE AFFAIR which is absolutely not close to the reality. = Ce "tout petit incident" entre Marine et la modération a évolué en qq. mails et discussions en une GIGANTESQUE "AFFAIRE" qui n'a plus rien à voir avec ce qui s'est réellement passé.

Une suppression d'une de ses photos lui a fait poster une autre photo accompagnée d'une note qui n'était pas acceptable et qui méritait une sanction. Voilà ce qui est à l'origine de ce "branle-bas de combat"
Puis certains membres ont posté des images & des notes qui tendaient à réconforter Marine mais dépassaient aussi les limites du TOS.
Je n'ai pas personnellement exclus ces personnes puisque j'étais absente mais une erreur de manipulation a due être rééditée et je me suis aussi aperçue ce soir que Clio a mal interprété la dates de son ban de TE = le 1er novembre 2011 à la place du 11 janvier 2011 (01-11-2011)
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  #4  
Old 11-14-2010, 09:03 PM
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Porteplume Porteplume is offline
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Hi Paulo, I'll try to answer BY MAIL as soon as possible but English is difficult for me but you will get answer to the questions I can respond to.
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  #5  
Old 11-14-2010, 09:20 PM
Vato_Law Vato_Law is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Porteplume View Post
Hi Paulo, I'll try to answer BY MAIL as soon as possible but English is difficult for me but you will get answer to the questions I can respond to.
Viviane Bonsoir,

tu peux m'ecrire en français je comprenderais aussi bien.

Meilleures salutations.
Paulo
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  #6  
Old 11-14-2010, 09:25 PM
Keitht Keitht is offline
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I'd suggest that ideally it would be helpful to at least have the replies from the mods in both French and English. It won't be easy to achieve but might help reduce any misunderstanding and loss of meaning in translation.
Even if we can achieve that I suspect there will be delays before the alternative language version can be posted. I'd be interested to hear if the members think this would be helpful or if they are comfortable to do their own translation to their native language.

Paulo - can I ask you to hang in there a little longer. I believe there is light at the end of the tunnel - and it isn't a train headlight

Last edited by Keitht; 11-14-2010 at 09:27 PM.
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  #7  
Old 11-14-2010, 09:55 PM
romanaa romanaa is offline
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Default the need of cleanning the air

Hello Vivian and all concerned,

it is very difficult for me to participate in this discussion and impossible to not at the same time as I was also banned for a month in summer.

I do not know exactly what had happened here with Marine, I can only guess.

But what I am sure about is that there are always at least two sides needed for a conflict, this is not only the matter of the recent Eversmile affair. Many of respected members had left or stopped posting long before Diane and others... that was the issue discussed when I was banned for expressing my opinions in forum, and even though I admit I got a bit hot tempered that time I still think I did nothing so bad to be banned. And I was even suggested to leave the site with the words "THE GATE IS OPEN"... I did not, as the friends I have here are too precious for me to do that, but I had the feeling that nobody had not treated me like that since Velvet revolution in 1989...

The reason why I am mentioning it is not self-pity, I really feel that these recent events are just a culmination of long lasting period when many members had feelings that the leadership of this site was not democratic enough. What I call for is the freedom of expression and speech. My thoughts are in accordance with Paolo's.

Writing this I feel I am at risk of loosing my membership - that is the result the mods achieved with the strict acts made from the position of power, the number of members leaving might suggests that it is not only my personal over-sensitive view.

My question is, with respect to the difficult role of moderators - is there any possibility of self-reflection from the headquarters, or will the attitude stay the same ie. Keep silent or leave...

I really wish this has a happy end,
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  #8  
Old 11-14-2010, 10:15 PM
Keitht Keitht is offline
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Hi Romana,

I certainly don't see anything in this post to get you banned. As you say there are always at least 2 sides to an argument. Somebody said there are always 3 sides to an argument 'My side', 'The other side' and the truth and I think there is some basis to that statement.

As a general rule it is better to raise concerns directly with the mods via PM than in open forums. That way others don't get dragged into situations where they are not privy to all the facts. I accept that if no response is forthcoming by following the general rule then members may feel they have no option but to make their point on the forum. That applies across the world of internet forums, not just here.

What we have been attempting to do is apply the rules of the site more consistently than has been the case in the past, and this does seem to have caused annoyance in some areas. There have also been changes to the rules e.g. the requirement to have notes which some members take great delight in finding ways round. Maybe application of the rules has been too strict on occasion and if that is the case then it is a cause for regret. We do need to look forward from this point rather than back. Drawing a line under the problems won't necessarily be easy and will take goodwill on all sides.

One thing I don't believe can, will or should change is the attempt to be consistent in our treatment of all members.
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  #9  
Old 11-14-2010, 10:37 PM
romanaa romanaa is offline
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Default To Keith

Hi Keith,

I am happy you started on a friendly note... I agree with you and I am happy to hear that there is some goodwill on the site's side. I hope there is a chance to invite some lost members back. I consider the community life on TE the same important as the fact that TE provides a place for posting.

I agree that many things can be solved by mail better, but as the latest events went quite far in stopping members' communication by erasing their reactions I reckon that it is high time to speak openly which Vivian started and I highly appreciate that.
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  #10  
Old 11-14-2010, 10:52 PM
iainsp iainsp is offline
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Greetings all,

and thank you to Keith and Viviane for putting their heads above the parapet on behalf of the moderators.

I am little disappointed in the way this thread is progressing. It seemed to start off very positively with:

"I also will answer ordinary questions in this present thread as long as the request keeps being polite and if I can do that without trespassing the rules of moderating we have to follow."

But them seems to have moved to:

"I'll try to answer BY MAIL as soon as possible"

and

"As a general rule it is better to raise concerns directly with the mods via PM than in open forums."

This does seem to have been quite an exceptional weekend - so irrespective of what is normally better, an open discussion seems fair and appropriate at the moment.

For example, I too would like to know why Paolo's (Vato-Law's) thread was closed. One possibility is that it was a mistake on the part of the moderator concerned: moderators can only make themselves more human if they admit that they too make the occasional mistake. Alternatively, within the 'rules of moderation' there was a reason for which that thread needed to be closed. Could I suggest if this is so, you use it as a case study to show the processes the moderators go through when closing/locking a thread. Given that Paolo had no problems going public on a list of issues, I suspect he will have no problems having his thread discussed as a case study.

I may be a little old fashioned, but I truly believe that it is generally better to raise concerns in open forums (e.g. on the floor of a House of Commons, a National Assembly, a Senate - I believe it is called democracy) rather than through PM.

Regards, and thanks for keeping this conversation open.

Iain
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