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  #1  
Old 12-18-2007, 04:44 PM
wjgmspeedy wjgmspeedy is offline
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Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 48
Default Fishing for points?

Hi everyone, I am fairly new at TE, so please enlighten me.
Today I saw a photo here, which I think was rather mediocre, but got quite a few points. So I mentioned as a critique my opinion. But then I saw the photographer had a lot, and I do mean a lot, of points gathered, so I thought maybe I am missing something. I browsed his pictures and I didn't get it. Compared to others it was, of course in my humble opinion, rather mediocre. But then I saw this photographer has given hundreds of exactly the same positive critiques over and over and over and over. And that most of his points probably were a result of returning that favour.
My question is, is that how it works here? I thought this site was about learning about the world and learning about photography. Please your opinion about this matter. :-)
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  #2  
Old 12-18-2007, 05:03 PM
Roly Roly is offline
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Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 259
Default Re: Fishing for points?

Hehe, welcome to TE, Willem! This is exactly how it works...
Well, actually it's a large site and there are many different groups with different interests. The quality is appreciated as well, but the points are not necessarily an indication of quality, as you've just figured out. This topic has been discussed too many times, and if you dig among the older forums you'll see that you're not the only one bothered by this trend. Anyway, post quality and critique honestly, and you'll find your own group of like-minded photographs and learn a lot.
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  #3  
Old 12-18-2007, 05:21 PM
Keitht Keitht is offline
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Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Gloucester, England
Posts: 3,957
Default Re: Fishing for points?

Willem,

It is truly refreshing to see a new member who is not only prepared to provide an honest personal appraisal of an image, but also clearly has the knowledge to provide meaningful critiques.
As has been said, the subject of the 'points clubs' has been raised many times before and will doubtless be raised again. I would say don't let it bother you. There is nothing you can do directly to stop it happening. Points, as such, are totally meaningless especially when misused. Reading the critiques will be far more beneficial than worrying about the points issues.
Welcome aboard TE.
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  #4  
Old 12-18-2007, 05:40 PM
Just-A-Guy Just-A-Guy is offline
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Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 75
Default Re: Fishing for points?

The member you mentioned uses a generic formula. It has the following template:

"A good POV of the 1)_____ and of the 2)_____, the photo has a good composition, DOF and beautiful colors. Thanks for sharing"

All he has to do is to fill in the missing words.
If it a shot of Eiffel Tower in sunset the words are 1)Tower,2)sunset
If it is a shot of a lion in the zoo the words would be 1) lion 2) cage
You got my point.
In addition, the fixed parts contain 4 words which sort of show that the critiquer "knows" about photography. These are: 1) POV, 2) DOF, 3)composition, 4) colors

And finally the formula contains the punch line "Thanks for sharing" or if the critiqer is really lazy just "TFS"

As you can see, all you got to do is to copy-paste the same critique again and again, and just change the two words that you think are the subject of the photo. In this way, you can critique the allowed quota of 20 a day in 10 minutes. You are guaranteed to get back in return 20 points, that is 1 point per 1 critique you posted. Try it for a few months and when we meet agian you will have 5000 point. Good luck !
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  #5  
Old 12-18-2007, 07:05 PM
wjgmspeedy wjgmspeedy is offline
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Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 48
Default Re: Fishing for points?

LOL, thanks but no thanks. :-) This kind of behaviour is so sad it is actually quite funny in a way.
But in time I will learn whose opinions matter and whose don't.
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  #6  
Old 12-18-2007, 09:22 PM
KevRyan KevRyan is offline
TE Expert
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 4,386
Default Re: Fishing for points?

hahahaha If this is your game, interest or purpose in life or being a photographer I suggest saving up for a trawler ..........if however the more subtle art of fly fishing fits with the level of attention that you give to making images you may catch fewer fish but ultimately the level of satisfaction is so much deeper and more meaningful..........each to their own!!!!!!

.....and what you gonna do with all those fish!!!!!!!!????????


lol ;-))) best wishes Kev
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  #7  
Old 12-19-2007, 07:28 AM
UnTrained UnTrained is offline
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Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 333
Default Re: Fishing for points?

Willem, it is just real life here. People with different opinions and behaviour are together and they also have different abilities. Some have something to show, others have a good way to present it. And we don't have to forget that the question of a foreign language is a point not easy for all. All mixtures of that possible and that remixed with their behaviour of being honest, polite, offending and still some quiet in the meaning of seldom writing critiques. This is not an ideal community but for sure you can find a lot of fun, it is a way to see and read about the earth and not to forget, a place to learn about photography. And a lot more is possible like detecting friends all over the world. As I wrote: Real Life!

With one main difference: Here you can leave the world. Please do not take this as a recommendation or a hint that I want you to leave us. It is only my personal opinion that it is your decision if you accept all this what you declare as sad or if you refuse to accept it.

If you stay: A warm welcome to you (my recommendation)
If you leave: All the best on your way

Lieben Gruss, Ulf
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  #8  
Old 12-19-2007, 08:59 AM
Just-A-Guy Just-A-Guy is offline
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Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 75
Default Re: Fishing for points?

I think that the whole system of points here is flawed, biased, unfair, unjust, in one word- bullshit. Points have no meaning at all, because 90% of the points given on this site are given with the expectation of getting a green smiley in return. Even if you don't care about points or are not fishing for them, the reality is that if you gave 20 honest critiques to photos that you really loved, you will end up with about 7-10 critiques from the same people whom you have critiqued earlier, and with these critiques come also points. Whether the "return" critiques are made out of courtesy (which is nice) or out of trying to identify oneself as a potential "pointbuddy" doesn't matter.

It has been said before that there are lots of photos on this site which are mediocre at best and yet received ridiculous attention and 100-200 points. Some of them can be viewed on TE front page. It is really not such a difficult task to get 100 points for a bad photo. I once thought of doing it for fun or to prove that the system is rotten. All you need to do is to give away tones of sugary critiques and points, post very few photos, and see your "return" points accumulating.

You have to understand that the scoring system is not something like a beauty pageant, not even a regular photography contest. The photos are not even viewed a similar number of times to begin with so how is it possible to compare a photo which has been viewd 5000 times and recieved 100 points to a photo with 100 viewing and 25 points.

At one POINT I considered to quit the site "with outragious style" because I felt such a frustration at the lack of attention my photos received, the enormous bias and unfairness I mentioned earlier, and my recognition that I can get a lot more points if I acted according to the scheme described above but the POINTLESSNESS of such a move (Ok, I can fool myself by saying I'm a good photographer based on the number of points accumulated- but whom am I kidding?)

The major POINT in my opinion is to try and enjoy TE as it is for the good POINTS it has and not to give any consideration to the number of points you have. There are a lot of magnificent photographs on the site, you can learn a lot about places you'll never visit by reading informative notes, get good tips about photography techniques or equipment, and make on-line friends. These are not trivial things. However as photography contest or a tool for quality evaluation - TE sucks big time.
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  #9  
Old 12-19-2007, 09:24 AM
KevRyan KevRyan is offline
TE Expert
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 4,386
Default Re: Fishing for points?

I agree with most of what you say - it's just not a competition in that sense at all - not that competition is unnatural but that's not what the SMILEY system is designed to do - 2 smiles, I smile , no smile - it was designed to be about human contact and communication of feeling as well as thoughts about an image.........this conversation has been visited so many times on TE -......anyway have fun........I'm quite happy never to have had 100 points for an image ......so it probably tells me my work must be poor enough to need the contant exposure of the excellent wor of others to learn from......or am I more motivated from within......uhhh! let me think!!!????? >>................keep having fun here Guy and genuinely learning...........building relationships - if you have the time - is importaqnt and useful to the continuation of the site though.......

But - I ain't gonna reciprocate pointless point to point stuff either!


take care best wishes Kev
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  #10  
Old 12-19-2007, 10:41 AM
oochappan oochappan is offline
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Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 2,385
Default Re: Fishing for points?

the world is build on greed and commercial exploitation, called economy for prosperity ...

TE <a href="http://www.trekearth.com/gallery/Asia/India/photo333049.htm">
mirrors</a> its illusion as a free site ...

Making abstraction of the fish focussing your target it is still possible to enjoy the other possiblities.
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