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  #1  
Old 05-21-2004, 12:45 PM
Keitht Keitht is offline
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Default The purpose of points ......... again

Are any other people put off from providing critiques / points either to members who have a massive points tally or to photos which already have many points? I get the impression that there are some members who would get points for a picture of a black cat in a cellar at night, just because of their name. I am not suggesting that the member is necessarily in collusion with others or that the pictures they post are not good. It is simply that the points they receive seem to be out of proportion with other pictures, and the very high points count is consistent.
I would actually question how much benefit the photographer gets from constant ecstatic critiques from the same circle of members. I certainly have my own favourite photographers but I don't always critique their work.
Apologies if this seems contentious, but I do wonder what is going on.
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Old 05-21-2004, 03:23 PM
joseelias joseelias is offline
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Default Re: The purpose of points ......... again

Hi Keith!

This issue has been discussed in more or less different approaches although a conclusion was barely taken from them, probably because it's hard...

After the quality of the photos itself, the main reason that some members have so many points is, in my opinion, a consequence of their active membership as critiquers. If you organize the members page by number of critiques it's easy to see a relation between the number of critiques written and points received. It's a natural thing. Unless you're lucky you only earn something if you put some work on it.

Also, friendship has a part in this issue. Personaly I usually critique two or three members in a regular base because I like their work and in the past they've helped me with their critiques and we've exchanged ideas. Besides that I look at the work of those who critique my work and when I don't post I try to look at the gallery. It's personal criterias as other and as valid.

So, by the above reasons I think it's natural for some members to have many points. It's a consequence of dedication to TE and also of human relations.

The question I ask is, if points don't mean anything except for the composing of the main page and eventually for the satisfaction of the member that receive it why is it so controversial?

There's no photographic contest in TE, no prizes to win, not even a best or highest rated gallery so I don't see much problem with this.

I confess that I'm also abset when I see great photos with few critiques, but manny times the member does not boder to participate in TE except by posting so it's natural he passes more unnoticed...
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Old 05-21-2004, 04:24 PM
BobTrips BobTrips is offline
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Default Re: The purpose of points ......... again

As we've often discussed, points measure something but they don't measure the quality of the photograph.

And they cause bad feelings. They're kind of like an appendix. Perhaps sometime in the evolution of the organism they served a function but that time has passed. Now they just get infected from time to time and cause problems.

If they bother you just turn them off.

(Maybe someday a higher power will dis-invent them. ;o)
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Old 05-21-2004, 04:38 PM
Keitht Keitht is offline
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Default Re: The purpose of points ......... again

Points per se don't bother me, I just think that on occasion they can be counter productive.
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  #5  
Old 05-21-2004, 06:53 PM
joseelias joseelias is offline
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Default Re: The purpose of points ......... again

“points measure something but they don't measure the quality of the photograph”

Well I don’t agree much with this statement. I believe it’s undeniable that the most rated photos on TE are indeed great photos because no one here, even gathering all the points of his friends is capable to achieve those scores. A photo with at least 50, 60 or 70 points has unquestionably “some” quality. These photos, besides the circles of friends attract attention from those that usually don’t look at the work of that member.

That does not mean that there are not other great photos with less points but here we must consider the type of image where talking (a portrait hardly gets has much points as a landscape), besides the mentioned effort of the member in the critiquing process. First TE days photos also do not have so many points because by that time there were not so many members. But considering the timeline the previously mentioned applies.

More, by the points achieved by a photo and comparing with his other work a member can easily understand which the most popular photos of his gallery are. I stress popular, not best.


“they just get infected from time to time and cause problems”
Questions are raised from time to time yes, but I hardly call them problems… The large majority of the members understand the subtleties of the point issue and live apparently well with it.

“If they bother you just turn them off.”
Yes I agree with that. TE is lived in a lot of different ways and offers a lot of options so members can always choose what kind of participation wishes to give.
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  #6  
Old 05-21-2004, 09:07 PM
green green is offline
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Default Re: The purpose of points ......... again

What I actually found very funny and this is something have quite often on TE is people commenting on picture pointing at many flaws the picture may have like bad exposure, bad croping, lack of contrast, lack of sharpness etc... and stil giving the 2 points. This just make wondering how accurate can be the point system.
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Old 05-21-2004, 09:43 PM
joseelias joseelias is offline
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Default Re: The purpose of points ......... again

"stil giving the 2 points"

Yes, this happens and I'm the first to recognize that I do that several times. Especially to younger members because I don't want to hurt feelings. Everybody's exposing very much when posting a photo and there's no need to hurt.

As a matter of fact I've previously expressed the opinion that what should be counted was the number of critiques received. If a photo motivates people to critique that is what matters.

We could still have the smileys but they would just be an indicator.
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  #8  
Old 05-21-2004, 10:05 PM
green green is offline
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Default Re: The purpose of points ......... again

what should be counted was the number of critiques received

What happen if a picture received 10 critics saying it is badly exposed or out of focus and another one will received only 5 critics saying basically that the picture is great and flawless? (Numbers are just example here)

And about hurting feeling here's my opinion if one is not ready to take bad critics then one shouldn't publish his picture on a website like TE.
If I publish a picture and receive a comment telling how bad is the contrast or the cropping and still receive 2 points, I will probably say to myself those flaws are not as bad after all.
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  #9  
Old 05-21-2004, 10:57 PM
joseelias joseelias is offline
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Default Re: The purpose of points ......... again

"a picture received 10 critics saying it is badly exposed (...) and another one will received only 5 critics saying (...) is great and flawless"

That happens allready. As you said the bad one probably have 20 points and the good 10... At least counting the critiques things would be more coherent.

I agree people must accept criticism. But also believe that when someone exposes by posting a photo we must be careful not to hurt that person. With the time and after knowing that person better we can be harder.

"I will probably say to myself those flaws are not as bad after all."
Yes, because of that the one point per critique would eliminate that contradiction and illusion. What was written would become more important than the smiley...
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  #10  
Old 05-21-2004, 11:21 PM
davecall davecall is offline
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Default Re: The purpose of points ......... again

This is obviously an emotive issue but I really think everyone is regarding it far too seriously. Yes, it's great when you receive an unexpected smiley & yes it's a letdown when what you consider is a good photo doesn't get a reaction, but if I learn one thing about photography from this whole exercise then it's been worth it -- and I've learnt more than one thing in less than a month as a member. This is great fun, and generally I've noticed that good photos get good grades. Finally; I'm into awarding one-point smileys because I believe there are so few real quality photos out there & yet it's too easy to give people 2 points because you're worried about offending them. I have been guilty of this, but my mission is to award 1-smiley to show that I've noticed the photo even if I don't think it's brilliant, and 2-smileys as a sign of REAL appreciation to photographers who have produced quality, publishing-standard work. There -- that's my two pence worth!
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