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  #11  
Old 01-27-2007, 05:10 PM
lennarts lennarts is offline
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Default Re: identity crisis?

There are over 46 000 users in TE and only about 12 000 users in TL, so it is not too many users who are actice on both sites.

I am also user of TL and I'm happy to learn that you are as well but that really was not the point of what I was saying.

Example - you say you are also a user of TL. Well, how would I know? Unless you make a link to your TL account on your TE first page (which I did), I would not know. As a matter of fact I searched the TL members list for "richard james" and "richard" and "james" and "james-r" and I did not find you. So if I would like to look at your experimental, artsy, digitally manipulated and personal photos I wouldn't know how to do it.
That is exactly what I meant by "better integration" in my first post.
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  #12  
Old 01-27-2007, 05:18 PM
lennarts lennarts is offline
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Default Re: identity crisis?

Okay, I finally saw it :)
But you probably agree that if one site is about "learning about world through photography" and the other is "learning about photography through world" then it should also be said so in TOS and be reflected on the photos displayed.
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  #13  
Old 01-27-2007, 06:36 PM
dzain dzain is offline
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Default Re: identity crisis?

For me there are only two kinds of categories: photo's that are manipulated/staged and photo's that are natural. I think the last category fits perfect on Trekearth. Only model- and productshoots don't belong here. But a macro of a flower or insect is for me still something to learn about the world.

Only family and petshots don't belong anywhere on these sites. They belong in a private album for the few interested familymembers.
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  #14  
Old 01-27-2007, 07:43 PM
Galeota Galeota is offline
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Default Re: identity crisis?

There are over 46 000 users in TE and only about 12 000 users in TL

TE was created almost two years before TL, hence the difference in the number of members. Even though I registered in april 2004, I had been browsing the site for several months before that. The vast majority of members in those days were as much interested by photography as they were by travels. That means portraying cultural or ethnographic representations within their countries, when travelling abroad, or when travelling within themselves (but that reaches the bounds of our imaginary, hence perhaps out of subject...). I don't think that particular intention, or dimension of photography, was ever the main purpose in Treklens.

I think the main original concept of TE has remained untouched, even if there are loads of photographs that are not strictly complying to the rules. I'd say, globally, that the site has evolved beyond my expectations, which is a good thing considering it could have ended in a rather simplistic touristic guide filled with images.

I personally have three main interests: learning about photography, learning about the world and finally learning about the photographer. That last item can be found in the TOS wherever you find the word community. The concept includes interaction, sharing, exchanging, filling gaps of solitude, and it is perhaps the main reason why so many people become addicted to this place, allowing it an unbelievable amount of their free time. Community links become stronger with time and also when the subject being shared has been experienced (even though differently) by the two beings interacting (the interest, for example, to look at another's point of view of a place where we have been before).

Now, there are a lot of people who don't really travel, but still remains faithfull to the site because it offers a virtual playground to reach out for others, which is a part of our own self construction. These members have become the vast majority of the 40000 you mention. Go blame them, I won't. Once that you've understood that TE is not mainly about photography, then you're ready to move on and really improve YOUR photography... go guess, perhaps another réponse de Normand.. ;o))
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  #15  
Old 01-28-2007, 12:15 AM
jinju jinju is offline
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Default Re: identity crisis?

realisticlly speaking, the strict number of photos that really dont belong here is very small. Im all for rules but really, what I keep reding on these forums is how we should control, ban, regulate, etc. Im not into that at all.
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  #16  
Old 01-28-2007, 01:18 AM
lennarts lennarts is offline
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Default Re: identity crisis?

I know, Rafal, you have a phobia of rules and control, I've learned it from other forum threads already :) :) I'm not in control anyway so don't be afraid, I'm not willing or going to control you or anybody else :)

But really, without joking, I don't agree with you. If you read the TOS very carefully, there are many photos and other elements that according to TOS do not fit best to TE.

Let's start with TOS p.3 - with few exceptions the digital manipulation is prohibited. Even the Levels, Curves, Color adjustment, Hue, Saturation etc. adjustments shoulb be for minor image enhancements. Often the manipulation is far from minor. Did you know that not only your own pets but all pets are highly discouraged?
TOS p.8 is another point that is often violated. I see constantly closeups, common objects, things that could have been photographed anywhere and that don't convey anything characteristic to the location where the photo was taken.
TOS p.14 is another interesting one... depending on how seriously one interprets what is said there, one could even go as far as to claim that the majority of critiques don't meet the high standards set in TOS: overly general critiques are discouraged, critiques must include justification, Photographer's Notes are to be used for general or technical descriptions about the photo (so technically a short story, a poem, etc. won't suffice), etc.

Workshops are another function often not used as meant. It is not in TOS but in Guidelines: "If you enable the allow workshop option when posting a photo, other members will be able to copy your photo, make changes to it, and post the changed image." From that one may conclude that worshops are actually not intended to post photos completely irrelevant to the original. Or moreover - to post photos of family, pets and other subjects that otherwise would be openly against TOS.

The guidlines say: "If you can’t articulate how the photo helps others learn about the world, then it probably doesn’t belong on TrekEarth". Tough words, isn't it?

Anyway, reading rules for you all was not my point. I'm not a saint myself and I'm sure there are photos of mine that don't necessarily help much others to learn about world and sure I've written superficial critiques, etc.
I'm not even saying it should be all so strict. For me the question really was - what is the difference of TE, TL and TN? Is it sufficient? Is the separation of three sites useful? In which way should they be linked? Because if the distribution of photos and users amongs the sistersites is completely random - how is it useful?
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  #17  
Old 01-28-2007, 05:54 AM
rychousmama rychousmama is offline
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Default Re: identity crisis?

Hi Lennart. You ask a very intriguing question, and I really think that the difference between TE and TL is almost indistinguishable. Yet, I have posted a picture of a flower on TE and I was notified that it was removed because it was supposedly more suitable for TL than for TE (I am not sure if another member on TL didn't like me and reported that I posted a photo on TE to Adam or the TOS just to get back at me....whatever the case...). It is weird really. And I have seen photos on TrekLens that I thought would be more suitable for TE.
BUT I will say this: there is certainly a difference in the calibur and attitude of photographers on TL than TE. On TE you have a lot of well-traveled members who sincerely just want to post photos from all over the world, documenting images of other cultures, foods, people, etc. Or you have lots of traditional ways of taking landscapes and scenery. On TL you will often find photographers that are, honestly, not as serious about photography. For example, you'll find TL members that post quick, low-quality shots of their pets, friends, and family, that involve basically very little intended photography technique. Another difference is that there are more members on TL that post gratuitous nude or half-nude shots of women, often voyeuristic or objectifying (you do not find this so often on TE). I also find that the members on TE are more mature in general. The ironic thing is that while treklens is meant to be for learning about photography technique and creativity, it, more often than TE, generates members that post photos involving little or poor technique and are more focused on the subject (ex: cute friends, boobs, a kitten, etc...). Anyway....enough of my ranting. But I thought you asked an awesome question that Adam should respect and what I wrote above is what I personally think are the main differences between TL and TE, despite how informal or accidental these differences are. Later!
-Lara
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  #18  
Old 01-28-2007, 06:08 AM
james-r james-r is offline
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Join Date: Jul 2006
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Default Re: identity crisis?

I do not really want people to link my two user names - they are different for a reason. Under an old name here I received private emails racially abusing me for taking pride in being Scottish. I also received private emails abusing me for daring to enter a negative critique against a long-standing member. I reported the incidents, the other users were allowed to remain. Hence I cancelled my old ID, removed all images and restarted under this name. This site is generally too good to leave because of a handful of idiots.

My TL and TN accounts are linked, but this one remains alone.

It would be easy enough to find out my other TL name, though.
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  #19  
Old 01-28-2007, 06:13 AM
rychousmama rychousmama is offline
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Default Re: identity crisis?

Hey James, I know what it's like being verbally abused by other members, but not at all on TE. On TrekLens I have been name-called and harassed and bullied because I dared to give an honest critique about a photo I felt was not only out of the guidelines on the site but completely unethical and misogynist. And in no way was I personally attacking the photographer who posted the photo, or anything like that.
I am surprised you got harassed on TE though, as I always had the impression that TE members were a little more mature and not soooo....cliquey. Later!
-Lara
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  #20  
Old 01-28-2007, 06:49 AM
jinju jinju is offline
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Default Re: identity crisis?

I tried TL but I just ddnt feel the place. Im not a big fan of a lot of the sort of photos they post there either.
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